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( I agree with much of your post )School = PhailThis was true when I was going to school, and I could not wait to get out of it. I did not care what grade I got (c average student) I just didn't want to be there, and I wanted nothing to do with it. Everything they do in school is force you to learn what they want you to learn, and you are only able to select from a restricted set of learning material art, math, etc. And don't even get me started on college/university costs, and the potential decades worth of debt that it carries with it. (college/university for me = no chance in hell could you drag me there kicking and screaming)I recall virtually nothing I learned back in school. To this day (10+ years later) I can't remember anything other then basic math, and how to read/write. I can remember what the classrooms looked/smelled like, the layout of the school, layout of the desks in class, but I could not tell you a dam thing what I learned. All those years of being in a institution and it was all for nothing.I could spend a year in history class and today not remember one single thing they taught me. But both then and now I could flip the TV to the history channel and watch a one hour documentary and permanently retain virtually every scene from that show for years and years afterward.And you know what's funny, I'm a self taught computer programmer fluent in over three languages, numerous platforms, and api's, and code 2D/3D game engines for funzies. I stay up til 4-5-6-7am coding when I was going to school and still do to this day. I've learned and retained more information after getting out of school by reading articles on the internet, watching documentaries on TV an over the web, then I ever did when I was in school. Why? Because I can learn about anything I want at my own pace, how I want, when I want. And there is no one to sit there and grade, judge or rate me.As far as I'm concerned the entire school system needs to be scraped, and replaced with absolute basic fundamentals. Basic math, and grammar. We live in a digital information age, when virtually every thing you can think of can be accessed on the internet. The school system is still sitting in the dark ages when it comes to how they try teach people.Applying games to teaching is an idea I have had also but in my particular case as you can see any situation where I am "required" to learn or be graded or judged on my work/responses is automatic fail. If it does not interest me I will retain none of it. Cut and paste, and get it outta my face.The one critical part of the thinking in your article is that you are still locked ( or if I may *brainwashed*) to an idea that there is a place you go to learn stuff. And material that you will be judged upon. And I see this time and time again all over the internet. No one ever suggests scrapping the entire system and starting from scratch or coming up with a completely new or revolutionary way of allowing people to willfully educate them selves.Every thought about education reform always has that core centralized "place you go to learn" mentality behind it. It's about fundamentally changing a societies culture to actively seek out knowledge and teach them selves. The whole "Place you go to learn" mentality has no place in a modern digital world where all information can be accessed instantly, freely, and from virtually anywhere on the planet.Just my 2c :D
Too good for me to describe with words. Simply magnificent, is all I can say.
I liked it quite a bit. I am just saddened that you don't like history or geography much. Those are some of my favorite things ever.Although the Azeroth remark hit close to home. Ouch.
@createdbyx, I am going to argue against some of what you said. Mostly because you called me brainwashed :PThere are many things I do a very poor job at learning on my own. It is true that they are mostly things that don't interest me (I've tried to catch up on my history education, and to no avail), but also some that I like and need (kind of tried doing Calculus II on my own while taking Calculus I in high school... didn't work too well). But if I go to a place designated for studying, teaching, and learning (not necessarily school, libraries work great too), I kind of "get in the mood". It may be that I am too easily distracted when home, it may be that I have been conditioned to thing the school institution is a necessity, but I feel that there is a need for it.Why so? Because what I think school should be and what you think I think about it are two different things. It looks like you believe that my idea for school is what it is right now, except with better teachers and programs. I actually see this perfect school as a place where you go and you are being offered a large pool of knowledge to choose from. Let me illustrate: You would like to learn about, let's say, geography. So you go to school, you enroll in a geography course, and you have a teacher whose responsibility it is to present the course to you in such a way that you understand and like it. And not only that, but his job is also to make sure that you don't ignore some of the core principles of the subject only because you are young and inexperienced enough to see how important they are. For instance, in the case of mathematics, you might like the subject, but dislike 2D geometry, because you see no applications for it. It's your teacher's job to make sure you learn and understand it, because it will be useful in a future you don't yet see. Get my point?I firmly believe there is to be some form of supervision. How much and of what kind is subject to change.
I totally agree with all what you said. There is nothing worst than a teacher who doesnt know how to bring his stuff to concrete, reality experience/example.
As a future teacher, I'm inspired. Saved to my favorites for reference once I've graduated. I especially like how you juxtaposed the analysis of gaming with the analysis of classroom instruction. That frame of reference reveals more to me about how to teach than any of the ed classes I've taken so far :P I've been told in all my education psychology classes how positive reinforcement is the way to go; they've never pointed out exactly how flawed the system is.If anyone here has any ideas about how this sort of idea could be applied to science, please send me a PM :)
That...was...awesome!And now I really want to create a single player (heck maybe mmo/multiplayer) game where you go through history (actual history) Like you choose an era and a country and you become a citizen of that country. Use actual maps from those times to create a realistic environment. I dunno, itd be pretty cool to just be able to run around the world doing "quests" (real life historical events) and all"Peasant LFG Taiping Rebellion!"
ArgentSun, did you ever play the old "edutainment" style games? Treasure Mountain and so forth?What did you think of those such games? Back in younger days, I mean?
I am afraid I don't even know what you are talking about.
The so-called 'edutainment' category of games referred to entertainment games - similar to typical games it offered a main protagonist character, a goal (a quest of some sort), and challenges to overcome in pursuit of said goal. These challenges were typically maths problems (being the sort of problems that a computer could easily randomly generate and assess for correctness).In this respect, penalties existed as with most games - you can try and retry if you failed, and you were rewarded when you succeeded, either in gold, coins, items, etc.http://www.kidsclick.com/descrip/treasure_mountain.htmThis whole category of games kinda disappeared in the mid 90s though, as blood, gore and guts games started taking off.
This was very long, but well worth the read. You have very interesting concept and ideas. I felt something after I read the first blog and again reading this. This sounds so possible within my life timeI know more about the WoW world than what I remember from highschool.It really made me think, and after I shared it with my friends, I hope it makes them think too.Thank you.
@Daemis, I can't address the first half of your post, but the second one relates strongly to my own personal experiences.I have always been that one guy who would spend an hour of studying/homework, and get the highest grade in the class when others spend over 5 hours on the same thing and barely push it to an A. I understand that different people excel at a different rate, and I feel both sympathy for those who need to spend more time on a mild irritation that they get my grade for something of far worse quality. A properly made "achievement/reward system" could make this work. The current system has exactly one way of awarding students with excellent achievement - giving them the highest grade possible. A different system could explore alternative rewards - an additional A, extra credit, "homework pass" to excuse yourself from an assignment you dislike, special honors, and so on. This is what I am advocating for. A system that is able to recognize every student's level of knowledge and award them properly, even if they are outliers.
This has been, by far, the best wall of text I have ever read. I agree so much I almost poured shampoo on myself while jumping into the shower and screaming "YES, YES, YEEES!" by the end thereMy problem with school has always been because of bad teachers. They know their stuff, but they have no interesting way of teaching it, and are very dull and boring. But, I've had other teachers who might not even know as much as the other teachers, but I wouldn't even notice that because I actually thought it was FUN. School and fun are two words that are worlds apart nowadays, and that's pretty sad because most people actually struggle in school. I've known a very small handful of people who managed to get the occasional A or B while the others were extremely happy about C's or worse. I myself know I'm a VERY fast learner, but ONLY if the subject is interesting to me, and if it's not, I fail like coke did with their vanilla... crap.I was floating with fluffy clouds under my arms all through 2nd-10th grade while I barely ever studied. Some stuff like english (I'm norwegian, btw) came easy to me so I got the best grade in my class and as such my teachers never even cared if I studied or did any homework or anything. And that learned me lazy = success, which in later years I know is pure crap. There is stuff I regret but that is actually the thing I regret the most, not studying more in school when I had a chance. As a 20 year old I can't do high school again and learn what I needed (not saying I need to, just making a point) and a lot of people agree with me, they really regret not paying more attention at school, but as kids it's even harder to focus on something when you just dont think its interesting at all, and then you drift off to eventually clean strangers toilets for a living.The software you spoke of sounds like something I would invest heavily in if I were an oil baron.But I'm not so..... all I can say is, it's a very nice idea.